Hello, profitable PR pros. How are you doing today? What's up? Wait a second. I know we're a little bit. Uh, I came on a minute late, cause I wanna get people who come on at 11 and then they'll be here. Um, and it's a little delay on my end. So if you're watching the replay, I'm just waiting till my crew joins us here. Um, welcome to my weekly Facebook live show. I'm Jen Berson. I'm the founder of generation PR, which is a PR agency I've been running for the last 16 years here in Los Angeles. And I am also the founder of the profitable PR post community host of the pitching powerhouse podcast and have created an entire suite of programs. Hi Garrett. Tell me who's here. I can see in the comments. Hi Nelson. Nice to see you. Nelson's my writer, dad. He's always here.
He recently joined us on our quarterly happy hour and also is a member of our pitch lab program. Um, and we just welcomed an incredible cohort of new members of our agency accelerator program. Um, for any of you who joined our, um, what was it called? PR path to profitability hygiene. Hi Jasmine. Awesome. Hola. Como says, um, anyone who joined our path to profitability three part training series. I hope you got value out of that. Um, we always aim to deliver value and kind of get your mind working on how you can have more profitability in your business, more enjoyment out of your business. Um, you know, like I always tell members of our programs in this community. I want you to build a business that you love, that lights you up. Um, and not one that sucks the life out of you. Like if we just want to make lots of money, I can absolutely tell you how to do that, but you're going to be miserable.
I want you to be intentional, grow a business you love. Um, like I do, I've, I've been, uh, running my business for almost 17 years. I still love it. Um, so yeah, and, and, uh, Jane is a member of our, of actually all of our programs, right. Jane and Jane has been, uh, you know, running, um, her PR practice for many years. Um, amazing, uh, valuable member of our community by, um, giving us insight into the other side, because she also is, uh, an editor founder of a very well-respected trade newsletter in the beauty industry. So she gets pitched all the time. Yeah, she's saying yes. All we love Jane. Um, we bonded over cats. My cat is downstairs. I don't think he'll come today because he doesn't know I'm live. I don't think he can really hear anymore. It's like hard for him to hear.
I think he's 18, my little buddy. Um, but yeah, so today's topic. So we, in a later date, we are going to dive into this kind of common thing that's happening these days with, uh, supposedly I know, I know we haven't seen him in a while. Um, this kind of like supposedly PR agency type thing where they're offering pay to play. Um, and so they'll guarantee placements. We're going to talk about that at a later date, because that's a whole kind of other topic that our community is like, what the F is going on here. These, you know, kind of, um, fake agency type opportunities. They're basically like selling advertorials, um, and positioning it as editorial. And we're going to go over that and how to handle it when our clients ask about it, separate topic, because it's happening more. And the crazy thing is these like shady, it's usually like bro agencies they're pitching me and I'm like, dude, look, they like slide into my Instagram DMS.
And they're like, Hey, how would you like to land a feature I'm business, insider and Forbes. And, um, and it's, you know, you only get, uh, you only pay if we get you featured. Um, and I know that it's an advertorial and by the way, I've already been featured in Forbes and business insider. And by the way, I'm also a PR pro who runs a successful agency getting earned media. So you're a joke, look at your audience. Anyway, that's a total sidebar because we will be doing that topic very, very soon because I want you to have the, uh, tools and the way to approach it when clients ask you for it. Um, and we're gonna get into, um, a bit more about this when it comes to like, just know that this topic of guaranteeing results, sometimes it comes up, clients ask why you can't.
Um, Nelson says never, ever, ever guarantee media hits. I never do. Nope. Any, any, uh, agency worth its weight knows that you, you, you just can't. Um, I do believe that any agency that, um, does that as lying through their teeth. Yeah, they're doing it. It's like over promise under deliver or over promise and just cross your fingers. So we're going to explain how to address this. Um, but just know that inside of our agency accelerator program, we offer, you know, things that will help you position your services in a way where it's still extremely appealing to clients. We have, um, contracts that cover what to say so that you aren't guaranteeing results, and yet you still get paid, um, what your proposal should look like. So just know that diving deeper into this topic, our programs support the advice that we're going to give now and from the community.
So the question is basically like, you know, can you, should you guarantee results for clients? So this was posed in our profitable PR pros group. And we had some feedback from the community. I'm going to start with Jane, um, who kicked it off. And she said, the more you keep them in the loop, or how do you combat this? I should say, the more you keep them in the loop by constantly telling them what work you're doing, the less chance of that conversation coming up, I would do it weekly, at least at first, especially when, um, especially before you have really secured any press for them, just so they know what you're up to, what you're doing, how earned media works. What's the timeline, what's the runway. Um, and like other people are sharing. Um, Marie shared, uh, that she does weekly reports and not let the client know what's happening on their behalf, but it's also a good resource in case they have questions about the work that you're doing.
Um, you can then say, here are some of the activities. So you're showing them that you're doing the work. You're laying the foundation, you're planting these seeds and then they grow over time. Oh my God, you guys know, I have like all this wildlife that flies like comes into my office. We had a squirrel, we had hummingbirds get stuck out of like rescue a hummingbird and drop her, feed it with nectar. I swear to God, I did that. I had like a whole Instastory about it. I swear to you. And Jane knows, I like saved this hummingbird's life. It was amazing. There was a bird that is trying to inch his way inside my door. That's open. So we'll keep an eye on that. Um, okay. Flew away. I just read something that crows are like really, really smart. That wasn't a CRO, but we do have pros and I'm scared of them.
They remember you. And if you do anything negative to them, they will intentionally harass you. So, yeah. Um, oh yeah. You remember that? I imagined I'll remember remembers that I, um, rescued that hummingbird. And she said that they rescued a hummingbird from the shop yesterday. I read that in, um, like, like something with totem, like an animal totem hummingbirds are like a sign of good luck and prosperity and like change in the right direction if I'm remembering. Right. So anytime I see one I'm like, oh God, get out. Cause it's scary. But also there are like bad publicists. Assuming you were talking about crows. I don't know. Um, anyway, I digress. I was on a like major client call in this hummingbird was buzzing around my head and I was like, and then they got stuck bashing its head into the window. It was so stressful.
And my cat was about to pounce on it. It was just really stressful. But um, so Marie is saying weekly reports because at least in the beginning and that aligns with what Jean says too. Just so clients see what activities you're doing. And you can kind of tell them that like it's, it's building momentum, you're gaining interest. It's not immediate. This is where we talk about setting realistic expectations. So that the results that you're reasonably expecting to secure will align with what your client's expectations are. If you aren't able to set those expectations from the beginning, your client's probably going to be dissatisfied. Like I've, I've seen it time and time again where we're like, oh my God, I'm crushing it. Like I'm crushing it for this client. And they're like, why aren't we getting any more? And they're like, are you kidding me? This is amazing.
These results are amazing. And it's because they don't know what's realistic to expect. And in what timeframe. So my integrator Miranda shares that client education is really important here. And you, um, so you may even want to write something on your site. That's public facing. Like if you have a blog or you share on social media, you're educating them to kind of share them what they can expect in regards to results. And then you can link to that as part of your onboarding materials. I would also have a conversation and be really honest. I think they can feel your honesty. They feel your candor. Hi Wayne, nice to see you. They feel it.
Um, and they, they trust that you're taking care of them because you're being genuine. Like anytime somebody comes in in their leg, oh, we're going to get you this up in the first three weeks, I'm going to land you a feature on Forbes. Just wait. That feels, the word is unctuous. It's like slippery. It's it's disingenuous. It's not anybody that I would ever place to trust him. I want to be the one that's like, listen, I've been doing this a long time. Here's what we can expect. These are some kind of pitfalls. Um, results are not guaranteed, but you can see, you know, by our case studies, this is why niching down developing really compelling case studies is so important because you can convey, um, what your typical results are. Um, and they can start to see the work you've done for other clients and see that they could probably get similar results.
So if you're showing them something, that's totally outside of their niche, like we do baby and kids, beauty and cosmetics, but I would never put a beauty and cosmetics case study in my baby and kids proposal deck never. They can maybe see it on our website and see, you know, they'll drill into the different types of clients and decide, um, that, oh, well these results look really good. And this brand is one that we would want to compete with or one that we feel, um, you know, we could get similar results to, then they start to see what's possible, but we don't promise anything. So the other thing too Miranda says, and I agree with this, you know, you, you write this blog post, um, put it in your onboarding materials. Um, and then, you know, clearly discuss it with them, you know, all current and prospective clients, right from the start, that results aren't and that your reports will help show them what's in the works.
What are you working on? Where where's the traction? What are some additional angles you're going to try? Um, what what's the follow-up you're going to do on some open, open opportunities following up on sample sends or interview requests, all of that. It's showing them like, you don't see results yet, but it's in motion. And that, um, really helps when you set expectations and show them that, you know, we're not guaranteeing results, but this is what you can reasonably expect. And you set those expectations and align them with what you probably expect is going to happen. Um, most clients do understand this. Um, but sometimes we have found that the lower budget clients don't because they're probably, maybe this is their first foray into exploring PR and hiring a PR firm. And they don't know how it works. And don't take for granted and assume that everyone that calls you, first of all, even understands what PR is, what are you actually going to be doing?
I mean, we've had calls like, you know, we're three, four months down the road. And the client's like, well, where's my, you know, ads. And you're like, we don't do, you know, we're not doing ads. And they're like, oh, we thought, you know, it's like, they don't get what falls under our umbrella. You have to very clearly state what services you're offering, but also explain to them what PR is, what it, isn't, how it works. Pay to play is not PR, you know, it's advertising, it's advertising. When you pay for a position somewhere that's advertising and you can call the shots. When you are doing pure earned media, you don't really get to call the shots. You know, the person writing the article is going to position it based on their opinion. So we don't always get the opportunity to go in and tell them what to say or their talking points.
We can give them the information, but ultimately with earned media, which is what traditional PR is. We don't really get to come in and be like, oh, by the way, I don't like this link. Can you redirect it? And PS, they're linking to affiliate links. Now all of them, every single one is an affiliate link. And you need to tell your clients that they're probably not going to link to their website unless they have a really good affiliate program, um, with a high commission through a third party, you know, referral like share a sale or, you know, um, we were doing a whole masterclass in the, um, inside the pitch lab coming up very, very soon. I just reviewed the deck all about affiliates and how you need to understand this.
Oh, well, um, successing anxiety. So who has successive anxiety, the client Wayne, or do you it now because you did so well for them that they bounced explain that Wayne is saying, can you put up, can you do a video on success, anxiety, my client physically shut down with cold feet. I was going too fast for her powerhouse. We love it, Wayne. We love to see it. Um, so yeah, lower budget clients typically don't have an awareness of how things work. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know about success, anxiety with clients. I mean, to me, that's like a lower budget client. Who's just, um, not equipped to handle the influx and they're not able to scale. They're not ready for PR Wayne. So in this instance, you know, doing a, an evaluation at the start and really asking them, like, if you get a huge hit and there's instant demand, can you meet the demand?
You know, we've had clients that have had huge, like there's stories of businesses shutting down because they got on Oprah's favorite things list and they couldn't handle it. And the backlash of missing shipping dates and delays, and the site going down was so bad for them. And they couldn't handle the influx of new client or customers and they couldn't scale fast enough. It ultimately shut their businesses down. So part of that discussion for the, with the client at the outset is, you know, if we start to secure some press and there's huge demands, are you able, you know, do you have the capacity to fill those orders? That's part of it. And my clients are, you know, they're bigger and they have the ability to fill orders and ship quickly and can scale if they need to. So it's usually smaller clients, but let them know, you know, this is what we expect and, you know, can you handle that?
And until you can, maybe you're a little premature for PR. That's how I would address that, Wayne. Um, but it's a good question. And I'm sorry that client shut down. I know you were working really hard. I'm assuming it's the color cosmetics brand that you were working with. Um, trying to secure some, uh, uh, trans influencers, right. Um, are drag Queens, I guess, drag Queens. Yeah. Anyway, um, yeah. So any type of marketing, well, PR like results are not guaranteed. So, um, wow. Okay. So Facebook ads, um, like a Facebook ads manager, can't really guarantee a certain amount of sales for a certain cost per lead. Um, you know, they can guarantee that they can manage your budget and that they're going to work to optimize, but they can't guarantee results because there's so many factors out out of their hands. Um, and for us, we're not the decision makers, we're not the gatekeepers of the media and these, you know, stories, right.
So we have to explain to them how it works. And that's, you really positioning yourself as an expert on storytelling and pitch angles and strategically aligning the message, the M niche audience that you're pitching, the specific beat that this editor writes for and the value that you're providing or that your client's story or product will provide to their readers because it's a perfect fit. It's not a spray and pray. This is when we talk about becoming a pitching powerhouse inside my program, the pitch lab, it's all about timely, relevant pitch angles, strategic that are the ideal pitch for that editor, which means that every single story angle is going to be a little different, every single introduction and the connection you're making with that editor is going to be a little different. So instead of guaranteeing results, you're showing that that expertise is what's going to convert for them.
And that's why they're hiring you because you have a proven track record or you know, of success in this niche, you know, what's going on, you know, the players, but it ultimately it's out of your control. Um, you know, so, um, you know, clients should also realize that the lack of results is also not necessarily an issue of you doing anything wrong. There's so many factors that can affect placements. Um, we just worked with a client that ultimately we were like, we'll, you know, we'll let you out of the contract early. They weren't they're public. They basically were taking an Asian skincare brand that was founded in China. They're like the number one manufacturer of a certain type of ingredient in a serum. They manufacture for every single, every single us company gets this ingredient from my client's lab. And then they did their own private label company.
And it did very, very well in China and they wanted to bring it to the U S market, but it was all very Chinese market affiliated and just plopped here in the U S and we said, this market is different. They view luxury brands differently. Um, this is what the website needs to kind of shift into this direction. This is what your social feed needs to shift into. And they said they agreed. And then ultimately the parent company in China was like, no, it works there. So why would we change it? And we were like, well, it's not. And then they, um, really were slow to get on an affiliate platform and slow to get onto Amazon. And then the other challenge that we faced here, whereas in the Asian market, they looked at individual doses. So product pre-packaged into single use, you can see where I'm going with this single use, um, was, was luxurious and it prevented cross-contamination.
And it, and it was the perfect amount of product that guaranteed maximum efficacy in Asia, but in the us, all of that packaging was a huge no-no and they were well it's recyclable. And we've had probably half a dozen beauty publications. This has come up. So you guys know, they say they won't feature things that say the packaging is recyclable because it doesn't get recycled. 95% of recycled recyclable packaging does not get recycled. So it's a lot of packaging. It was in a very nice box with a foam, um, inner lining with slots for, uh, 30 different amp ampules in plastic pre-filled. And our contacts were like, whoa, packaging, single use, you know, and we were like, it's travel-friendly and it's, COVID friendly. And there's no risk of cross contamination. And it's the perfect dose. They, they didn't want to feature it. They were like, we're not featuring, you know, products like this.
So it didn't matter that the product like performed better than any on the market of this specific ingredient serum. It just didn't matter. These were insurmountable hurdles and the client, our contact here in the U S and also they did not have a marketing person. They did not have a marketing person. So we were trying to position them, you know, when they were just like, oh, it's working there, just do it, the same thing here. And we're like, that's not. So we hooked them up with a social media content creator. Um, it just was so hard to get it going. So the good thing with that is the client, our us contact was so understanding and was like, we know you guys are great at what you do. And we know there were factors working against you. And I was like, oh my God, I love you.
You're like the nicest. Cause you, we know that anxiety of like, why aren't we getting results? And he feels so stressed out when we got some, but it didn't move the needle. And the client, you know, ultimately was kind of dealing with the same problems from a sales perspective with the Asian company. So that's a factor outside of our control. And we were able to show the client what we were doing and the feedback we were getting and how we could help them combat that. But maybe, you know, they're not willing to make those changes and you're stuck. So some of those things should be addressed in the sales process, you know? And so that you can show that you are, you're set up for success, that they have everything you need. This is, um, why we have a checklist that's like, as your client press ready.
So you can review all of the assets they have in place and know that you're going to hit the ground running and be successful. You don't have to wait for them to get the assets. You need to be efficient and effective because they're going to look at you and be like, why haven't you gotten me anything? And it'd be like, well, I'm waiting for pictures from you or samples or whatever. And there'll be like, well, why am I paying you? You know, so you have to know that there are factors and part of this and Wayne, maybe this came, could have come up for you in that kickoff period is, um, you know, can you, are you, how, why now? Why PR now what are your goals? And can you handle the hopefully, you know, influx of interest in your company that we're going to get from securing PR for you.
Um, and then we had another question about this that was like, well, if it's not guaranteed, then what are the deliverables? So from our community, we got some advice from Francesca. The client is paying for the years of experience, you're bringing to the table, that hours you're putting into create a newsworthy story. The amount of time you put in searching for the right contacts, um, and to target the best reporters, not to mention your strategic thinking when it comes to con strategy and PR tactics. So not quite saying what the deliverables are there, because we are not going to show our clients pitches, unless it's something really technical and we need them to approve, uh, technical or factual. Like if it's numbers, facts, figures, revenue, numbers for a business story, something like that. But typically our clients are not revealing our pitches. They're going to slow us down.
Our pitches are, you know, one-off strategic. We don't really want the client in our business. And most of our clients really don't ask. Um, but you can say deliverables our pitches and you know, the contacts, the media list we're building. It's not just like you go, oh, I have this huge list. You're really strategically thinking about the right lens and aligning the story angles with the specific editor, which means you're reading their content, which means they're, you're following them on social. It's slow, but that's the strategy that works versus spray and pray, spray and pray will never work for you. Um, you know, so the community is basically saying, listen, you've developed all of these skills, like a pro for years, and that's what they're paying you for. And that's why niching down again is so important because they're paying a premium for your deep subject matter expertise and your deep seated relationships with the gatekeepers at the media, right?
So you can show, well, I, you know, I've been working, I have a baby and kids brand, um, call this afternoon. Um, and the lead came from a member of our program. So thank you very much. And my other like amazing client came from a member of our programs, which we so appreciate. But, um, you know, the client took a look at my website and literally replied and was like, this is exactly what you're looking for. Your expertise is exactly what we need for our launch. And now there's that understanding when we get on the phone that we're experts in his space because we niche down. If I was like all over the place, he'd be like, well, anyone, you know, I could hire anyone. Like, why would I pay a premium to come to you when you don't really show that you have the contacts in my space?
So, um, you know, you gotta really think about, um, showcasing that you're the pro you're the expert, and they're coming to you for that. And they're paying you for the ability to get them the results based on what you know, and who, you know. Um, and the another bit of advice, if a client wants to pay for the deliverables, um, the person says they dialed the wrong number because they're asking for marketing and the measurable results you can generate from marketing PR probably isn't right for them. I have a feeling I know who wrote that. Um, it doesn't say here, um, and then somebody else wrote, think of it as if the PR professional or agency is a lawyer. The client pays the lawyer upfront for his expertise, even if it might result in not winning the case, the same goes with PR. Um, and I guess I can appreciate that because I'm also an attorney in my former career.
Um, and so yeah, you pay for a retainer. You pay for the lawyers to put together all of their, um, you know, motions and filed the complaint and move the law, the lawsuit, or whatever forward. Um, like we just paid for my son for due process with his special education needs. We just found out my son is on top of everything. We've already been supporting him with that he's dyslexic. And he has dysgraphia, which means he's unable to, right. Um, so we're moving him to a special school, very expensive to do that. So we hired an attorney to help us with hopefully securing some support from the district. And he specializes in special ed. So I'm not going to just go to like some lawyer. I went to law school, so I could go to my class and be like, Hey, is there a lawyer that's active?
That just wants to help me? No, I want a special ed attorney. Who's going to help navigate the system. They have the expertise that I need. And then we paid a retainer for his support. And the very first thing he says is results are not guaranteed, but on his end, he's looking at all the facts of our case and making a decision, guiding us about whether or not we have a strong case. And if we did not, we would probably not pursue due process and pay this lawyer a five figure retainer, because he would say, listen, it's a crap shoot. I don't know here. He's saying you have a strong case based on this set of facts, I have seen success. So we pay that retainer and he can't guarantee an outcome, but he's looking at it from his lens of expertise and experience. And that's what you need to do.
You need to look at a client, not all clients are created, created equal. Are you going to stall out on angles? Like there's nothing interesting here. And right after the launch, it's just going to be like, no, one's going to care. Or are you like, oh my God, there's so much here. We can talk about the founder story. We can talk about the, um, you know, zero emissions, carbon neutral aspect. We can talk about the fact that it's a stem based company and children are learning and growing. We can talk about the charitable component. We can talk about the fact that this is like a successful founder. Who's now pivoting based on his own needs with his own kids. Like, can we keep going? Are they going to continue launching products? Is there anything else out there on the market like it? How can we differentiate them from the competition?
These are the calculations we're doing so we can decide, is this going to be successful? And I can tell you, if you look at every single client where you have not had traction, you knew, you knew in the sales process that it was like a gamble, but you wanted to, like, we all want work. Listen, I do too, but I want to get a client results. Um, and have that build my portfolio and make us look really good versus somebody with a huge budget that we're going to be like, wow, we just worked for six months and kind of resulted in how I thought it was going to go. You know? So, um, tell me it with a thumbs up or a heart. If you can relate to that, where you've had a client that has been a struggle, meaning like maybe the client's not bad, but it's, they're not positioned for success.
And yet you took it anyway. Cause you're like, I want to help them. I just want to help them. I really liked the founder. She's super cool. I really think there, I can help. Yeah. Look at that. I know it. And you can look back. This is why we also cover red flags, um, and what to look for in the sales process. Oh yeah, me too. Look at my lightning bolts. I think there's one on the back. It's over here. I love it too. It's like energizing. I love lightning bolts too. It's like, bam. Um, thanks Wayne. You said it. You liked my sweater. Um, it's finally cool here today. So I finally get to wear it. Uh, Jasmine, tell us about the red flag that you had this morning and good for you for trusting your judgment. You know, so, and we've all done.
It listen. Like I love bringing in revenue for my business, but I know I'm the flash today. Um, we had a huge thunderstorm the other night, um, and it was so loud lightning and thunder storm and it was so loud. The house was rocking. We could see I'm up on a hill so we could see all around the lightning bolt strikes. It was super cool, but like, it felt really creepy. Um, and my cat was going berserk. So I was like, what does he know that we don't know? Um, anyway, so you guys know at that moment and that same with the attorney, he is not going to take our huge retainer, knowing he's not going to be successful for us. And that's going to help him preserve his reputation and that's going to help him really hone in on his expertise and be able to say, I'm an expert.
And you know, I know you're, I know this space and here's what I predict for you. And he's going to, I'll refer him to other people. That's where the success comes in. You have to be just discriminating, um, and wait, you know, align your expertise. Um, okay. Um, so some advice for me, right from me, um, we lucky as PR professionals, that it is an industry standard. That results are not guaranteed. It's in your contract. It's in our template contract. We share in the agency accelerator, and obviously it needs to be in your contract. Um, Jasmine sang a client, wanted to write her own content. And my copywriter tried to help her edit the client. Didn't like any of the edits, but she'd never done this kind of work before. Oh yeah. Yeah. When the client thinks they're the expert, I mean, maybe she's the expert in her brand. Absolutely. But if it's conversion copy, um, or something. Yeah, yeah. And Nelson, we aligned very much on this. It's gotta be in all your contracts. Results are not guaranteed. That's an industry standard for us. Um, but you need to bring up this topic even before the result, the contract stage, because clients need to understand that this is about aligning expectations. Um, you know, mention this on your discovery calls. Um, and any conversation you have with potential clients, like here's the deal with discovery calls. The second you start talking money, it's a transaction.
This is a transaction. This is why I also say, do not put your rates on your website. There's so many factors that go into rates. There's no way you can just put a rate on your website. It's not one size fits all. I'm sorry, it's not. And you need to have that ability to, you know, be able to negotiate, okay. In any negotiation, the second you talk about money, it's a transaction. I want my relationships to be more of a serving beneficial, supportive value, adding relationship. So I'm listening in these discovery calls to the clients, what are their needs? What are their goals? What are they describing their brand? As you know, I'm picking up on that energy and I'm thinking to myself, can I do stuff? Like, is there something here? You know, can we, are we the best fit for them? And when I reply back to them, I'm serving in a way that shows that I'm going to support those goals and their needs.
And that's how you start to go. That's where you kick off negotiating, because it's about showing. I hear you. I get you. And I'm the one that can help you accomplish these goals. And that gets you all to a place where then when you're, you know, you're negotiating, it's not just about the dollar amount. Like I will tell you that clients will look to us and make the decision. They already want to work with us before we ever talk numbers. And if the numbers aren't really aligned, we find a way to make it work. We find a way they find a way we find a way because there's already that connection. Okay? So those discovery calls are really important. Um, numbers make it purely transactional. You can't start with that. Can't put it on your website. If a client asks you, what's your rate, try to get on the phone with them and you can look, um, you can look around and see what their presence looks like, where they're sold, you know, how big they are to see if you get a sense of whether or not they can afford your rate.
I do my diligence. Sometimes I'll look and be like, there's no way. There's just no way. So I won't get on the phone. People say that, well, I don't want anyone to waste my time. Do your diligence, look at, look around and get a sense. But you know, if that's where you're starting from, you are starting from a transactional position and you're not really going to be able to convince them because it's less important than the dollar amount. You know, it's less important that it's you, and it's more important that your rate is affordable to them. And that's not where I want to be. I want to be like the person like, oh my God, you're awesome. You're the one that we need. Let's figure this out. Um, so Nelson says, my rates are talked about when I get in front of a pennant potential client, usually the CEO on a zoom call after I show them my corporate presentation deck, which shows off great results for current clients and also Nelson.
So generously shared his corporate presentation deck in our profitable PR post community. He put it in there as, um, a video. So you can see it it's a PDF, but he was trying to load it so we could see it. So if you go in there, you can see, we have our own, it's like a capabilities deck. We have it too. I share my entire capabilities deck inside the agency accelerator. We just had a member say that after joining the program and using our proposal, which is like part of the, you know, the capabilities deck as part of the proposal, she's landed every single proposal that she has sent out. And she has confidently turned down work because she knew what to say no to. So, um, it matters communicating the value matters. Um, vetting clients is so important for so many reasons, but it's especially important for gauging whether they're going to be easy to work with, whether they're going to help you set you up for success, help set you up for success.
Um, and when you meet prospective clients, you can usually trust your instincts to tell whether there are any strong pitching angles. Whether there's a lot here you can work with. It's not always the case, but a lot of times you can talk about probably being able to secure some type of coverage and letting them know the timeline and letting them know what type of coverage like if they think they're going to be on Oprah's favorite things. You know, when that, when that episode was out, you know, where Ellen's mothers, they giveaway, there is a huge financial commitment. Not every single company can do it. And you have to tell them that. So they're not like, wow, I'm going to work with you. And you've gotten three clients on L on Ellen. You're going to do the same for me. No, I'm not because you can't handle it.
You know, meaning like it's a huge financial investment. It's a huge investment. And they have to be able to handle the influx and most small companies can't. So you have to explain that to them. Um, the skill is being able to sustain coverage once you've covered the basics. So this is where you are really good at creative pitching and finding new ways to pitch the media. Even if your client doesn't have something new to report to the media, um, like keeping the brand fresh in the eyes of the media. So it's not just like, well, I already told them about that. Well, tell them about it a different way or tell new people about it because there's another hook for it. Or you're tapping into a study that you can allow, you know, it's brand new study and your client has an opinion on that or your client's product directly solves a need that was brought up in the study, whatever it is like, you need to be able to come up with fresh, timely, relevant pitch angles.
So if you look at something and you're just like, I am drawing a blank, there's just, I don't even know. There's not a lot here. Probably not going to be successful, you know, for six months, like it's probably not going to happen. And also keep in mind too, that we share in the pitch lab. And if any of you, I know Wayne's in the pitch lab, Nelson's in the pitch lab. Um, Jane's in the pitch lab, Jenelle, are you in the pitch lab? Um, anyone here who's in the pitch lab, let me know what you think of it, but we share a monthly execution plan with timely, relevant pitch angles. So that also helps you see how to work your clients in to those stories. And you can use it on a sales call and look at it and be like, you know, um, oh, by the way, and long leads, you know, we're looking at may and you're, you know, probably not made like March and that's whatever month and you know, women's history month or whatever, and, um, or, uh, international women's day, which is March 8th, which happens to be my birthday.
Um, that's a great fit for you and your product. That's empowering women. And I can just see that right away. We will pet you for that. That really helps you on those strategy pitch, angle, call things. So just keep in mind, we have a resource that will really help you punch up those pitches longterm, but that's what they're paying you for is to be creative and come up with ongoing ideas to continue to pitch the media. Um, so again, not guaranteeing results as an industry standard, and you need to make sure your clients know this. There's no way to guarantee the quantity or where you're going to secure placements. Um, you need to really share with them and make sure they know it, how immediate placement earned media is different than other forms of media like advertising. And we talked about that with an ad, you pay a specified amount, you get complete control over the creativity and the messaging, and you'll also know where, and when your ad is going to run or an advertorial that's paid placement.
That's not PR with PR you're at the mercy of the journalist, but the rewards are so high because those are really powerful. Those editorial endorsements are really powerful. That's what they're coming to you for. So being able to show this is what you can expect. And also, you know, we like to give metrics, even though we are not responsible for sales, you need to make sure they know that too. Um, we're not responsible. We're responsible for impressions and, you know, driving consumer demand, like basically informing the media, gaining media attention, earned media. Um, but you know, you need to really show them, um, through other case studies that there is a powerful impact when there's a successful PR campaign. Um, there's no possible way, um, to make a guarantee, but a good PR firm will also do other things besides just generate features. Like if you, if their messaging is not honed in and tight, we can help shape company messaging.
Um, we prefer that they have a marketing department that's handing that to us, but if they don't, we can come in and say, you know, here's, um, how does PR and marketing align? Cathy is asking, well, I think marketing is where it kind of starts internal in the company, or they have a consultant or somebody that's helping them with their marketing initiatives. And that's their, you know, um, it's social media, that's marketing, it's their email marketing. It's any kind of owned effort that they're doing. Um, you know, that they have like their sales flow, like knowing when they're going to launch new products, um, when they're going to, um, offer discounts and then PR takes those initiatives and finds ways to amplify them and time it the right way. So we want a solid marketing team. They also marketing. Department's gonna come up with their tagline.
They're going to come up with their brand positioning. They're going to come up with their, um, target customer, their ideal customer avatar. So, you know, the types of media outlets to pitch, you know, so that it'll reach their target customer. They should know that and they should give that to you. Um, they should also develop their brand identity, the brand look and feel, um, assets like imagery that all comes from marketing and then PR takes that and runs with it. That's basically how they align. And if they don't have a marketing strategy or a department, it's going to be hard for you to be successful. Cause you probably won't get what you need. So I hope that helps. But, um, you know, uh, so we can do other things like leverage brand appropriate outreach program, like other target brands, align with them to reach and borrow their target audience.
We can, um, counsel or direct their internal staff on social media and other marketing efforts. So we are not their marketing team, but we can tell them what we need from their marketing efforts in order for us to succeed. So a media hit is not the only indicator of a successful PR campaign. You need to make sure the clients understand the full scope of what you are offering to them and the value you're providing to support them in other areas of the business. Um, and then of course, again, you need to establish real realistic attainable expectations for your clients. So you're aligned, um, um, when you're working with a client and determining who to pitch for a story, it helps to set realistic goals. Hi, Angela. Um, what would you charge if they want that service? Which one? Exactly. Um, is it wise for a practitioner to offer marketing and PR?
I don't think so. I think you have to niche down. Um, you know, maybe you have somebody, you refer out, I have a marketing guru expert. Um, I hate the word guru, but she is amazing. And we cross refer work to each other, marketing and PR um, both, you know, I don't know because we are not offering, we would do social media marketing. That's very kind of niche down in terms of what, um, marketing service, but, you know, you need, um, somebody to come in and, you know, it's different establishing everything about the brand, like their tagline, their target avatar, their niche markets, their primary markets or secondary market. I think that they are very different services and I think PR supports marketing. Um, and I would be hesitant to work with a company that doesn't have all of that really dialed in because you cannot kick off a PR campaign until it's pretty much identified.
And I think, um, that they're different enough to where, you know, we're inside our programs, Angela, um, you know, the agency accelerator, we really talk about niching down in terms of your service offering. And marketing is one of these things that is very subjective. You really need to be like an expert in it. Um, and could be something that you are, there's a lot of scope creep. There's a lot of like very subjective things that you're developing that, you know, isn't the same type of service as PR, which is on going. So, um, Wayne is saying Melissa bolton.com. She creates the business avatar with a psychological study quiz. Um, and that's one facet of it is, um, you know, brand avatar. I have a branding, you know, uh, a graphic designer who does like brand establishes brand brand identity, but also does the backend work.
And they create a brand deck so that everybody who works with my company knows cause I had her do my branding, who our target customer is who our ideal customer avatar, primary, secondary, what is our goal, our mission, our tagline, our competitors, you know, it's like a market analysis, where do we fit in? What are we doing to carve out our own niche in the market and differentiate ourselves? You know? And then it's like, what's your logo, your brand identity, your fonts, your colors, your, um, texture treatments. Like this is how we approached it. How do all of those things work together? So that's graphic design and market marketing positioning. And I feel that if you offer all of that and you are going to not be profitable, it may seem, yeah, it gets expensive to bundle them. You're an SVP of marketing and PR it is very expensive.
And the reason it's expensive is because it's a lot to develop them. So when we go out on our own, um, I have had people come in my agency accelerator and when we do the math on the marketing piece, and then they have the PR side, uh, one of our members, I have like a case study video about it. She was making $7 an hour given the amount of services and the scope creep and the revisions and the amount of time that it was taking to execute and deliver on those services. And that's why we recommend not doing it. It's, it's not profitable to offer both, you know, and the client will be like, whoa, you know? Um, so think about it like that, but it sounds like you really get it. Maybe you could be like a contract, you know, CMO for a company like a, like a fractional CMO, Angela, and, and offer that service, but PR totally different and be really careful about that.
Um, because I want you to be profitable and those things are just a killer, like they're so time-consuming, um, okay. Realistic attainable expectations for your clients when you're working with a client and you're determining who to pitch a story to, it helps to really set realistic goals. So if you have a startup that wants to be in Forbes, for example, um, you may have to start with the lower hanging. And then once that story is secured, you can start to see where, where they're getting traction and what kind of growth or handling. And then you can kind of then pursue industry vertical coverage. But it's really hard to get a fledgling launching company in Forbes. And we just had a writer contributor to Forbes. Um, w she, you know, we had to be very careful about how we, you know, described her based on her agreement with them.
She takes it very seriously. And she came into our pitch lab program. It's a masterclass. We offered our members, said it was the most valuable, um, hour that they've checked into because of what she shared. And part of it is like, if you don't have that, that, that, that don't even bother pitching us. And it may be your one and only shot, you know, so clients that are like, I want to be in Forbes, they have to be able to report on like revenue growth and customers and some kind of metric sales or whatever. And they have to be established. It can't just be like a little fledgling startup with no results or no customers. You have to be able to show more than that. Um, if you promise good morning America, right out of the gate, you're setting yourself up for problems down the road.
Like if they're, they're like, I want to be an on-air expert on national, on a national morning show. You're not going to be able to do that. You have to get a real, they have to go on local. They have to be comfortable in front of a camera telegenic carrier segment. Maybe you get the media training and get them ready for that. But if they come in, they're like in the first month, I want you to pitch GMA. You have to tell them that's not how it works, so that you set up real realistic expectations. Um, the other thing is, um, about reporting results. So we have this whole module on reporting and there's a masterclass on Barcelona principles, which is kind of a new standard. It's been around a decade, but it's gaining more traction. Um, the new standard of measuring your results, um, you know, which is really helpful for people to watch and implement reporting is so important.
Um, Jasmine media training could be part of PR. Usually it's an expert that does like coaching and media training. Um, and it would be if you wanted, you know, how to be a separate fee, because it's not like an ongoing retainer, it's kind of like a project. I would say, like getting them ready, do it, doing a certain number of hours of coaching. I don't really want you to charge hourly. It would be like a package getting you media ready, and then maybe it's developing your key talking points. Um, and, and an hour of zoom coaching right before an upcoming media segment after you've given them media training. Um, and it's a whole other type of service, you know? Um, so, and then getting them ready for an on-air appearance and giving them like a little kind of one hour refresher and working through key talking points.
You also need to tell them what not to talk about or how to handle a question that they don't want to answer. There are people you can see that are so good at like the tuck and roll in sledding out of a question they don't want to answer. And you're like, wow. And they just distract and redirect and get them back on a topic they want to talk about. That's really good media training. They come off looking a little like slippery, but at least they didn't say anything that they, you know, incriminating or whatever. So yeah, you can, you can offer it. Cool. Awesome, Jasmine. Hi, I'm so happy you're here. Um, so we have this reporting. You have to show in your reporting that you are delivering, even if they're not so much seeing the results, you show them what you're doing for them and what the status of everything is.
And con consistently remind clients, um, that true earned media requires this level of kind of sophisticated, strategic, timely, relevant, targeted pitching. And it's not guaranteed, but that's what they're paying you for because you're a pro at that. And then also educate clients about the, how the news cycle works. There's no such thing anymore. As a slow news day, the news cycle moves faster than ever. And there are so many outlets working around the clock, more breaking news stories. Um, there are, you know, publications online that are just churning out content all the time. So they're always looking for something that is going to get the eyeballs on the page. Things are subject to change until you actually see it published somewhere. It may not exist. It may not happen. Even if you get the confirmation, you have to have it in hand. We've all experienced that devastating last minute, like, sorry, we couldn't run it.
We had something else instead. And you're like, ah, um, or they just go Stu, which tends to happen more and more now. Um, things are always subject to change. You need to let the clients know that we expect this at this date, we will follow up. And once it runs, we'll show it to you, but nothing is guaranteed until it is published. Um, it doesn't mean that a story won't appear, but it can all shift around according to whatever news may be breaking. And obviously it just feels like there's so much breaking news all the time. Um, sometimes there's so many major events that, that are kind of devastating. I mean, I hate to say it. I just hate it so much, but we all have to stop and real, you know, when COVID started, we were like, should we keep pitching? What do we do?
What's respectful. What are the angles that media wants to talk about? Everybody shifted. Everybody had to really figure things out. You know? So if there's something that's a major event, we typically stop and we'll say to the client, it's not, it's not appropriate. Don't post on social, unless it's a show of support and solidarity that aligns with your corporate values, you know, um, none of this, like, you know, a fake allyship, um, performative allyship, don't allow them to do that. But anyway, you need to really guide them that the new cycle happens and it will affect what you're able to pitch. And when, and when you're close to securing coverage, you have to be really careful about getting overexcited and promising it to the client. I love. I'm like, oh, we got you this. And you're like, wait until you have it. Because things change.
Like we said, um, initial interest, even something that sounds like it's a hundred percent going to happen, can change. And it's there. Isn't always a sure thing. Um, oh yeah. Okay. I have a note in here. I had a client, um, that was secured. You guys, this was going to be my, um, my agency making moment. I had a client secured on Oprah's favorite things for the episode. Um, the, the, the big giveaway episode. And I was so freaking excited. I was so excited. Oh my God, we had packed up boxes. We had shipped the items to the studio. I had this amazing contact who was like my eyes and ears. And something happened last minute. It was a political move. Um, it had to do with them favoring a certain company because of a relationship. And then they put it on the price point, but the price point was pretty similar.
And there, the company caught wind because of the, um, internal relationship with this other company, it was a direct competitor. They swept in and they kind of talk trash and said, this company, I know them, they can't handle it. They're not going to be able to deal with the influx. Um, we can handle it. We're ramped up. We're we have products in the warehouse we're ready to go. Our price point is better. And they swooped. And my contact that day happened to be out on like a remote shooting. And she called me, I mean, she was like practically in tears and I felt like somebody kicked me in my gut. I felt sick to my stomach. Probably more upset than the client to be really honest with you. I don't think they got it, but I knew what it would do for me in my business.
I knew that it was going to like, you know, we've had clients on Ellen today, show everything, but like that Oprah favorite things, I was like, this is it. And then it didn't happen. And I was devastated. Um, yeah, they kicked me in the teeth. Like tell ya it was hard. This was a very long time ago. It was right when I first started probably two years into my business. Um, and I was like, I am amazing, you know? And when it didn't happen, then that imposter syndrome comes in and it's like, did I do something wrong? Could I have done something differently? And my contact was like, no, this was like, from the top, there's a relationship with the other company. And they convinced the powers that be high angel that, you know, your client couldn't handle it and they were poised and ready to go.
So that sucked, but it was, you know, what happened? And I learned the hard way and we all do that results. Aren't guaranteed and kinda, you know, save the enthusiasm for when you're actually like, look, when we got you here is, you know, or creating that beautiful clip online and emailing it to them. Um, so here's what I'm going to offer her is we have programs to help you with this. So if you're not feeling a hundred percent confident about generating results, especially if you're new, the best thing you can do is really hone your pitching skills and learn everything you can about best practices and best ways to craft pitches. And that also helps you learn when something is a no, you know, when you're just like, Ugh, there's nothing here. I can't like I could be amazing. And we're going to spin our wheels for six months and the client's going to be sad and they're going to, I don't care how much you like someone and think they're great and you want to help them.
I've had so many bombs where I'm like, I just want to help them, but I know, I know we're not going to be able to do a good job. You just know. So when you hone your skills, you know what the media is looking for. You're able to craft pitches that are exciting to them, timely, relevant, targeted. That's what we teach you in the pitch lab. So we want to turn you into a pitching powerhouse. That's what we call my podcast, pitching powerhouse. It is the perfect place to learn how to do that. And you learn everything you need to know about pitching and you get these incredible monthly execution plans that will help you strategically plan your pitch angles, give you ideas, help the client. Even you can guide them on marketing initiatives and say, oh, you know what? This, um, holiday is coming up and it's national donut day and you're a donut store, or you have a print that has donuts on it or whatever.
Let's offer a discount for that on that day. How does that sound? And we give you that well in advance so you can plan for it. So we're giving you like long lead, you know, four months in advance, five minutes in advance, and then short lead. We're giving you like six weeks in advance. So you can start to plan. We also give you like media outlets, specific outlets and what stories they're looking to run. It's bananas. Like this is so good. Um, and I, I'm not writing them. I have people established with decade plus experience. Um, and they are writing incredible execution plans. They're like 45 pages every month with tons of ideas, really well organized. So you can just see exactly where everything is. I offer productivity tips. Those are mine. Uh, Dwayne, I just said she loved my product productivity tips. Um, those are mine.
I hope I'm able to do it in November. I don't know if I got it in, in time. Cause I wasn't productive the day they were due, dealing with my son with school has been really, really, really hard. Um, but, uh, update for anyone who's been following that we are moving him to a different school. I just, um, I've been supporting my son with special needs for a decade. He is 11. Um, we knew he had, um, autism spectrum disorder, ADHD, anxiety, and depression. And I share this and we medicate him for several of those things. And I share this because I, it's not taboo and I don't want anyone else out there worrying about, you know, dealing with this in silence and private, you know, like it's just, there's a community. I had somebody recently call me and we talked about it, you know, the special and one of the women in our program that I interview on the podcast, that's going to launch soon, Kelly Bloomquist we also share that connection.
Yeah. And we're here for each other. Um, and it, you know, there's, you know, my, my son is, is incredible. Like there's nothing shameful or secretive. He's amazing. He is an incredible kid. And he, and I feel so grateful that we are on top of it. And I know he's lucky to have us as parents because we're getting him the support he needs. But we recently did a comprehensive neuropsych evaluation and discovered that on top of everything else, he is also dyslexic. And he has dysgraphia, which means that he can't right. Um, and his school where he's been for seven years in a special autism program, missed it. They missed it and they hadn't noted. They didn't know. They always complained about his writing because he rushes. So it's an ADHD issue. And when he reads, he rushes, um, and his handwriting, they said was also an OT issue.
So we're dealing with it privately, but it's not even the right approach because he's dyslexic and nobody caught it. And they said, well, if he complains about math, that's an unpaid non-preferred activity. Um, he's complaining about math because the math, they teach three quarters of the points you get are writing. It's common core. It's the worst. It's terrible. Um, that's what they teach in our school district. They're like, write a sentence, explaining how you came to your conclusion. It's the right, it's horrible. Um, my son will do the math in his head. He gets it and knows the concepts gets the right answer or he transposes numbers. So we see that a lot too. So if he slows down and doesn't transpose numbers, he gets the right answer, but he doesn't want to write the sentences. So he won't do it. And he's missing three quarters of the points on math.
Common core sucks. Right. Jasmine, it's the worst. Um, and so he goes, well, I'm bad at math. I'm like, you're not bad at math. You're bad at that math or you're, you don't prefer that math. So we're getting him into a special school. He starts in two weeks. I'm really nervous, but I'm so relieved. Um, I trusted my instincts. I did my research. It's a journey. Right. And, um, we're pursuing this new school that I think is going to really, really help him. And I'm hoping that once he feels more confident in school and he's around a lot of kids that are also having the same learning differences that he has, he will feel like he fits in and he'll feel like he belongs. Um, and so I'm really hopeful. I'm very hopeful. Um, I introduced him to a kid yesterday and he's like, mommy, I think it could be friends with him.
He seems really nice. So he's worried about leaving his friends and I'm devastated for that, but I know we're not going to regret this decision, not even for a minute. Okay. So, um, you know, advocating for our children. I don't even know why I started talking about it anyway. Um, that's important to me, that's my latest update with my son, for anyone who's been following. And for any parents that are any parents with kids, it's hard, especially running a business with special needs. It just amps up the stress and yeah. So, um, I feel for you, um, oh yeah. Earned media is PR that's exactly. Cathy earned media is PR that is like the core of PR and means not paid. So if you're talking about earned, meaning like you paid for it, that's paid media, that's advertising. It can be, but it's totally different.
Some agencies do both. Um, sometimes we do pay to play. Sometimes we do paid integrations with an editorial component, but earned media, which means pitching an angle, editor falls in love. They run a story. Everyone's happy. That's earned media. That is the core of what my business offers. So, um, that's what I have for you guys today. I went really, really long. I love all the conversation. I love all of you being here. It means so much to me. Sorry. I meant paid media. Yeah. I had a feeling, um, yeah, you can offer it, uh, for sure, but it's, you know, you're dealing with a budget and Kathy, what I'll tell you sometimes, and we have done this is if you are dealing with an advertising budget and you are managing the spend, the agency of record gets a percentage of the ad budget and it's a good percentage.
It could be 10 to 20%. So it's something to consider. You can say, we have a retainer, we're doing these services. Blahbity blah, blah, blah. And for any paid, um, paid media is like advertorial. Let's say, if you are managing a media budget, you can say we have a 20% or 15, 10% management fee and your agency of record. That's how ad agencies do it. They manage a percentage of the spend. They get money on top of that. We have done it. Um, we don't take a cut of influencer budgets. I do not like nickel and diming clients. Cause I hate it as a, as a customer. I hate it. I think it's cheap. I don't, you know, I want someone to be like, we got you. And I want to feel like, wow, like here's an example. You guys, okay. So I bought from an auction house, I bought a Gucci purse that was like this really expensive purse pretty recently issued.
And it was for auction and I bid on it and I won for literally like 10% of the purchase price, but it was sold without the shoulder strap. It was like just the hand, but the shoulder strap and the dust bag were missing and I bought it, like, I'll use it a little bit and then I'll resell it. You know, I like to kind of cycle through and you know, I knew this was a bag I could make a profit on, but I reached out to Gucci and I was like, I have this bag. It's missing the strap. Is there any way I can purchase it? And it took them a little bit of back and forth and they got back to me and they're like, we would like to offer you the strap and the dust bag, we'll get back to you. They're going to make it.
They have to make it because, you know, and I was like, that's a Gucci level service, right? Like that is premium level experience. You know, they didn't have to do that. And people sell these straps online for hundreds of dollars, you know? So that is the kind of experience I want to have a high end experience for my clients. So I typically don't charge a fee white glove. Yes, that's exactly. I couldn't come up with the word angel, thank you for that. Um, it is white glove service, you know, where people, clients pay a premium and I just want them to be like handled. If I have to hire a copywriter, we got to, um, you know, draft a press release, no problem. If we're issuing a press release all, have them pay for it, but I don't have them pay a premium. I don't charge a premium for stuff.
Like I just, I want to be like we got, you know, we take care of our clients. I just want them to feel like it's a white glove experience, but we did manage a big paid campaign budget for one of our billion dollar clients they have since gone bankrupt. That was horrible. Beginning of COVID, um, lost a huge amount of revenue. It happened, you know, but we manage a huge budget for them. And we said, you know, we are paying out of pocket and getting reimbursed. And the terms were long, like 90 days and the budget was huge. So that was out of my agency pocket. A little scary when you have a client that declared bankruptcy, but we did that and we S we got a management fee for, it was pretty significant. So for me, it was worth it. And my contact there was like, we, we got you.
And we were, we were fine, but that's a huge risk. Um, but yeah, so Kathy, if you want to do earned media, you have the option of getting an agency management fee and taking 10% of the budget. But I don't do that typically only really for one or two clients over the years. So, um, anyway, I have gone way over, um, you guys thank you so much for being here. I'm so grateful for this community. It was so fun to connect with so many of you during our recent launch for the agency accelerator, we welcomed an incredible group of new members for the fall, uh, 2021 cohort. Um, the program is, is so great and I'm honored to support them and to continue to support you through this community too. Um, and if you're interested in learning how to really amp up your, um, let me see if I can find this, uh, amp up your pitching skills, join the pitch lab.
It's really, really good. I super promise you, um, hold on. I'm just going to grab a link so you can check it out. Um, people on right now are in the program and it's very good and I'm very proud of it. And we launched it at the beginning of the pandemic to really support our, you know, our members of our community. Um, and they have been able to take what they're learning in here and offering a very valuable paid service for a monthly retainer. Like people that didn't even know how to do PR are learning and putting their skills to the test and getting clients for it. So it's very, very good. Um, jump into that or just look at the page and, and let me know if you have questions. So thank you guys so much for being here. I really appreciate it. And I will see you next week. I'm here every week, and I don't know what we're talking about next week, but it's a question from the community. So it's going to be good. All right, guys, have a wonderful day and I'll see you next week.
